tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post5716778863577481175..comments2023-08-27T01:42:51.266+09:30Comments on Ausjenny: Ways Authors can lose a Reader.Ausjennyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-85611290833422718242013-08-08T07:09:56.241+09:302013-08-08T07:09:56.241+09:30Thanks for the thought-provoking reminders, Jenny....Thanks for the thought-provoking reminders, Jenny. Walking does generate some good blog entries, doesn't it?!Eileen Rifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12263113178081805930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-25348858937742591362013-08-03T01:10:31.564+09:302013-08-03T01:10:31.564+09:30The Cat? It's asleep on my treadmill, soaking ...The Cat? It's asleep on my treadmill, soaking wet from being out in the rain. Now you know! :)<br /><br />Thanks for letting us know what you've seen make Christian readers unhappy. I don't know why any author wouldn't take this in to consideration and accommodate if it wasn't some moral stand not to--why turn off readers? If you're writing to gain readers that is.<br /><br />And yes, my advice to all authors--resist commenting on any and all reviews on review sites. I'm actually having "fun" watching one author who comments on pretty near every review she gets, some are annoyingly unnecessary like "thanks for the review" and some show what side of the bed she woke up on. She's even changed her name on the different sites, but who else would comment on everything? It's a trainwreck waiting to happen...which is why I'm rubbernecking . . . not a good thing, it's not a way to interact with readers, gives you the heebie jeebies (that's not a bad word in Australia is it???)<br /><br />And another thing, when authors rant about a bad review on social media, their followers sometimes go on a rampage and they go comment en masse on the review, and even if the author didn't ask them to do it, it feels and looks that way, which is just as bad. So authors, if they vent, should have a fellow writer to grumble to privately to get it out of their system.<br /><br />Obviously the author commenting on everything would disagree with me, but if it turns off a section of your readership, why do it? And it's on the internet FOREVER!Melissa Jagearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07439765292197683329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-59746833617682189922013-08-01T08:27:55.686+09:302013-08-01T08:27:55.686+09:30Thanks Laetitia, I had just got onto to this. I te...Thanks Laetitia, I had just got onto to this. I tend to walk in the morning and dont get to all the email as quick as I need to.<br />Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-5982797384965813132013-08-01T08:22:27.708+09:302013-08-01T08:22:27.708+09:30Ways writers can lose a reader - have their work p...Ways writers can lose a reader - have their work published on a site that uses a bot to post spam on other writers' and reviewers' blogs. :-)Laetitia :-)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08239718954326223338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-82269721780228213582013-07-30T13:23:26.680+09:302013-07-30T13:23:26.680+09:30Laetitia
i found your comments insightful I am su...Laetitia <br />i found your comments insightful I am sure you didn't upset anyone.Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-17243179174226325122013-07-30T10:26:13.569+09:302013-07-30T10:26:13.569+09:30Hmm...the vagaries of the Internet and the written...Hmm...the vagaries of the Internet and the written word. Just thought I'd let people know that I'm not trying to get up the noses of those who hold a different position from mine. When I write a comment, I am hearing it in my own tone of voice in my head but, of course, no-one else can hear that and it's hard to get the inflection of one's voice across in writing (hats off to published authors who manage this one).<br /><br />I am trying to second Jenny's original post comment that there are cultural things that affect how we read someone's work. My apologies if I've done a ham-fisted job of it.Laetitia :-)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08239718954326223338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-50566800931054407552013-07-30T09:01:52.394+09:302013-07-30T09:01:52.394+09:30Jenny - if it's any consolation, I 'bought...Jenny - if it's any consolation, I 'bought' a free e-book and the (USA) bookstore put me on their dead-tree catalogue list! (So yes, I got a catalogue in the post that had come from Sweden - evidently postage rates for them were cheaper if they sent them from Sweden.) I complained about that and got taken off the list.<br /><br />Oh, and your comment about the red herring cat had me laughing particularly because I'd just watched a movie in which the criminal is shown getting a shoebox out of hiding more than once and then when the police raid his house we see them pull out this box, but we're never shown what's in the box! Why <b>bother</b> showing us the box, for crying out loud?! I have an idea as to what may have been in the box, but I don't <i>know</i>. I assume the reveal scene didn't make the final cut.<br /><br />Mary - don't worry, as an Australian, I don't want explicit sex scenes either. If you compare secular Australian movies to secular USA movies you'll notice a big difference - an explicit sex scene is extremely rare in Australian movies (i.e. movies made firstly for the Australian market rather than the USA market). We tend to find them boring and a mild insult to our intelligence - we can figure out that a couple have had sex from a well written / dramatised story and we don't need to (almost) be taught how to do it! (General Australian tastes for violence vary but I personally don't need to read it.)<br /><br />Rose - you say that due to the volume of words in the English language, an inoffensive word choice is always possible. The problem is that due to cultural differences, a word that is perfectly innocent in one variant can be offensive in another. For instance, there is a word that Jesus used that USA culture is very sensitive to. Australians are bamboozled by this. We're left going, "It's a proper noun, not a spell that will result in its appearance if spoken out loud. How are you going to tell someone not to go there if you won't state where and what <i>there</i> is?"<br /><br />So, what do others think, if having a character swear is somehow integral to the story, could it be written comics style "$^%*@!" or simply as "-ing"? That second one is a reference to Terry Pratchett's "The Truth" in which a character keeps saying "-ing". It's actually the reader who is imaging the swearing.Laetitia :-)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08239718954326223338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-81567642574473043512013-07-29T19:45:30.659+09:302013-07-29T19:45:30.659+09:30Thanks Rose, I haven't noticed it in your writ...Thanks Rose, I haven't noticed it in your writing. I am not a worried about some slang but the bigger words (and most seem to start with B) <br /><br />Im glad the other turn off were enlightening as I think some of them are just as important. <br /><br />I just had one of those calls tonight. I have been put on email lists just because I have commented on a joint blog with both Christian and mainstream books. The lists I ended up on were for the non christian authors. Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-44156440712766092192013-07-29T19:03:35.055+09:302013-07-29T19:03:35.055+09:30Very interesting, Jenny. I think I have probably u...Very interesting, Jenny. I think I have probably used the occasional word in my writing that a reader may find offensive, but I never, ever, considered it to be. I know that sometimes I can get wrapped up in making sure I write'real' conversation. But, the fact is - there are so many words in the English language, there is always something else you can use that is unoffensive. That's the challenge of being an author. You have to bear in mind that you don't just write for yourself. Some of the other 'turn off's' you mentioned were enlightening, and so true. Nobody wants to be hassled to buy something. Those telemarketing calls come to mind. Thank you for sharing - it all makes us better authors. :) xRose Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00916783669139743112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-72830236728049445982013-07-29T19:03:24.576+09:302013-07-29T19:03:24.576+09:30Jenny, thank you for being brave enough to voice y...Jenny, thank you for being brave enough to voice your opinion on these issues. <br /><br />If a Christian author is writing for their own pleasure, they can include whatever words or content they want that fits their theological beliefs. <br /><br />But, if a Christian author is writing with the goal of publishing a book in the Christian market, they are very foolish if they ignore the genre expectations of their readership. Their book is a 'product' and the goal of the author/publisher is to find a readership who are prepared to pay money to purchase their product. <br /><br />I'm yet to meet a reader who has said 'I loved reading a Christian book because it has bad language in it.' Plenty of readers, myself included, have expressed their reluctance to buy another book by a Christian author due to cussing. Jenny has mentioned in her post that readers discuss these issues in reader forums eg. The Book Club Network, Goodreads.<br /><br />Jenny, I appreciate hearing your thoughts and, as debut author in 2014, I value hearing feedback from readers. Without readers, authors don't have a market. A simple economic reality that authors really can't afford to ignore.Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-90129748610003674192013-07-29T18:12:34.021+09:302013-07-29T18:12:34.021+09:30Laetitia and Elizabeth, as much as you as authors ...Laetitia and Elizabeth, as much as you as authors may want realism in your books to the extent of using what are at the very least unhealthy words not accepted by many, many people still, you have to accept certain facts of an author's life.<br />Unless you only want a relatively very small number of sales of your book - if it ever did reach a shop anywhere - you also must know what the majority of readers who buy from Christian bookshops of books released by Christian publishers expect. And while there has been a real change in recent years since the wonderful increase in the number of Christian Fiction books so that the general publishers are easing up on never publishing a book about Christians, I doubt if there are many Christian bookshops who would have them on their shelves. Certainly I know personally the conservative standards of American Christian publishers - some more strict than others of course - but I have yet to hear of one who will accept swearing or explicit violence and sex scenes that offend their readers. They know their readership markets often better than we writers can!<br /><br />I wholeheartedly agree about having squeaky clean Christian characters who always do and say "the right thing". I certainly try hard to show failures I have myself or have seen in others over many years in ministry. And sorry, there is no explicit swear words in the Bible as there is no explicit sex scenes mentioned as such either although all are mentioned. Being a Christian who writes romance, I've used the Bible as my example! So much more to say about these things I feel very strongly about but this comment is already too long. Mary Hawkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603850711168486457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-84365410806128112982013-07-29T16:49:49.317+09:302013-07-29T16:49:49.317+09:30Interesting. For those who don't know me, I&#...Interesting. For those who don't know me, I'm also Australian. I wouldn't turn a hair at the words that Jenny mentioned, particularly if they came out of the mouths of a non-Christian character. My mother, on the other hand, would.<br /><br />To a certain extent, I also wouldn't have any problem with swearing coming from the mouths of Christian characters because (a) despite having grown up in a Christian home and having never knowingly <i>not</i> been a Christian, I still fall massively short of the Glory of God - and don't I know it - and (b) it allows for the fact that sanctification is an on-going process and none of us are going to be perfect until we pass from this life into the next. To me, my sometimes poor language is no better or worse than say prioritising 'me' time over marital relationship time (I'm selfish with time), prioritising my husband over God ("Oh, but God wants me to spend more quality time with my husband - it's his love language after all"...hmm, but not at the expense of time with God), fearing man's opinion more than I fear God's and therefore not talking to someone about God (justifying it by pre-judging them to be 'not interested')...<br /><br />To have all the Christian characters be instantly squeaky-clean with no faults upon salvation is disingenuous and could portray the wrong image to non-Christians and self-aware-struggling-Christians. I'd rather occasionally read the words that the character would say than constantly read, "he cussed" or "he swore" (it's as sloppy as David Eddings' over-use of "in the way of the wolf" or "pennants snapping in the wind"). That being said, I don't want every second word to be an f-bomb. ;-)<br />Laetitia :-)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08239718954326223338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-85540380086833583412013-07-29T14:27:16.710+09:302013-07-29T14:27:16.710+09:30Elizabeth the book I complained about was more as ...Elizabeth the book I complained about was more as an alert to fact of the swearing. I am not talking about a few incidents in the first 5 or 6 chapters it was used a min of 10 times per chapter to the max of 30 in one chapter. If it had been only occasionally I wouldn't have had the same issue. <br />Again I wrote this from my perspective and I don't speak for all readers.Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-47985551668121494742013-07-29T13:34:01.229+09:302013-07-29T13:34:01.229+09:30I was referred to this post because I am a writer ...I was referred to this post because I am a writer that has a Christian message but allows their non-Christian characters to speak naturally (though slightly muted, I only use mild swear words). To me this discussion is ridiculous. You would take a book out of a bookstore totally regardless of its theology, message or purpose, just because it has some words you don't like in it? And by the sounds of it, these were debatable words? <br />I am prepared to change my writing because I will not be a stumbling block to others, but I just beg that you make sure you are not stopping people reading something that could aid them in their relationship with God, just because there is debate over a word. I believe there are legitimate places to swear, and also that you can have a life-changing message even if there are swear words in there. Please remember, the Bible has swearing in it, because it is a true reflection of humanity. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11625617346595249494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-67531016061754613532013-07-29T12:50:55.508+09:302013-07-29T12:50:55.508+09:30Thanks all. I think swearing and cussing is a hot ...Thanks all. I think swearing and cussing is a hot topic at present for myself I choose christian books cos they should be clear of it. I started the church library and most of the borrowers are non christians. One of them who does swear like a trouper outside of the out reach group was praising the books and one of her comments to recommend the books was to quote her "and they are clean reads with now swearing or sex scenes". I donated some also to the town library and the head Librarian has said the same thing that borrowers have made the same comment and asked for more of these books. <br />Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-34799791814298297262013-07-29T12:28:48.378+09:302013-07-29T12:28:48.378+09:30I remember being taught at school that your swear ...I remember being taught at school that your swear word was literally that - swearing 'by our Lady' (Mary, the mother of Jesus). If we agree it is wrong to take the Lord's name in vain, it's hardly any better to His mother's name in vain. If authors are going to use the word, please stick to using it to describe an object covered in blood. <br /><br />I'm also conscious of swearing in Christian fiction. One book published in 2012 used the c**p word three times - and it just didn't have to. Other words (like junk or rubbish) would have served the purpose equally well. <br /><br />And I'm another person who has no patience for authors calling out reviewers, especially for 'not understanding'. If the author couldn't get the reader to understand a point in their 90,000 word novel, a comment on a blog post isn't going to help.Iolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199141868703826943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-47908368817955905482013-07-29T11:29:29.552+09:302013-07-29T11:29:29.552+09:30Thanks, Jenny. Lots to think about here. I'm n...Thanks, Jenny. Lots to think about here. I'm not a fan of swearing in books. Especially if they're sold as Christian fiction. I was always taught there's a better to way to say it, and authors need to know how to do this. Good to read your take on it too. <br /><br />Blessings<br />Dotti :)Dorothyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13622521834128746217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-39716599290684784542013-07-29T07:09:50.432+09:302013-07-29T07:09:50.432+09:30Jenny, such a good, informative read. And an excel...Jenny, such a good, informative read. And an excellent point about reviews being subjective/matter of opinion. I wrote a review several years ago and gave the book a 3 rating (3 out of 5). I'd never heard of the author, but she was apparently very popular, and I was one of the few who thought the book was okay but nothing fantastic. As you said, was I wrong? Nope, but I was honest :-)<br /><br />Thanks for sharing your thoughts!<br /><br />Nancy CChill Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18011521248073693176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-79342810105523486092013-07-29T06:03:47.917+09:302013-07-29T06:03:47.917+09:30Thanks ladies I didn't want to write the word ...Thanks ladies I didn't want to write the word but will with a gap its blood y. Here in my mums generation it was very much like how the f word is used now. It may be more common now but it is still very much frown on in christian circles. The book featured a British officer who used it way to much. The word crap is another that was bad here but is becoming acceptable. <br /><br />Thanks for stopping by. Mary I find it hard to give a review if its under 3 stars. I have won books on blogs and never received them which is really annoying.Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-9969800398299747002013-07-29T03:33:10.361+09:302013-07-29T03:33:10.361+09:30Oh, I love this article. But now I'm wondering...Oh, I love this article. But now I'm wondering, what American word is considered cussing in Australia? And did I do that? My publisher is Irish and he helped weed out certain things, while mild in today's standards, I could still get the point across by rewording, that way no one would be offended.<br />It's a thin line, balancing promotion of my book and connecting with readers without overdoing it. :-)<br />I'm going to tag this post so that I can always come back to it and refresh myself.<br />As for the cussing, I agree. An absolute no-no in Christian books. And I'm a reader, too. Certain things turn me off...guess I should keep that in mind. If it turns me off, then don't do it to others. :-)<br />Thanks Jenny!Daphne Selfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00392433374440291972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-23717978252685962142013-07-29T03:18:18.807+09:302013-07-29T03:18:18.807+09:30Echoing Deb and the others here, both as a reader ...Echoing Deb and the others here, both as a reader and a writer. I, too, am curious what the word/words might be. Kathleen Y'Barbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00932869033741258619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-42857847655306527112013-07-29T01:09:50.791+09:302013-07-29T01:09:50.791+09:30Hi Jenny
I couldn't agree with you more on al...Hi Jenny<br /><br />I couldn't agree with you more on all points. Being a writer as well as a reader I understand how hard it is to portray a bad character without using the words he'd naturally say, but it can be done and well worth the effort because this can be a slippery slope. It's irritating to have something explained over and over as if we couldn't get it the first time. Just give us the facts. We can figure it out. The very worse to me is complaining about what readers say. The customer is always right.<br /><br />BTW, I also do some of my best thinking on the treadmill.stitchesthrutimehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13592361290873081613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-28458046807076428992013-07-28T23:08:48.015+09:302013-07-28T23:08:48.015+09:30Jenny, I found this very interesting, and you make...Jenny, I found this very interesting, and you make some excellent points! As a reader, I have some of the same pet peeves you do.<br /><br />As a writer, I want to know what the "swear" word is that is offensive in Australia so that I don't offend readers by using it! I've never heard that was an issue, so would feel terrible if I was offending readers there unintentionally! I know you probably don't wish to post it on your blog for obvious reasons, but if there's some way you can let us know so we can refrain from using it, that would be helpful.<br /><br />Thanks for all you do to promote Christian fiction and encourage Christian writers!<br /><br />Deb~Deborah Raneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252126648118644451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-45703122919119344462013-07-28T22:09:27.192+09:302013-07-28T22:09:27.192+09:30Thanks for writing this post Jenny. I love hearing...Thanks for writing this post Jenny. I love hearing thoughts from a reader. xxxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8488422862815120364.post-59626401800773228432013-07-28T21:34:47.016+09:302013-07-28T21:34:47.016+09:30You have shared very important points for all of u...You have shared very important points for all of us, Jenny. Thank you so much. My mother tried to teach her kids "if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all." I think this also applies to a certain extent here. All published writers I've met over many years are readers also. Sometime back I had to very reluctantly put this principle into practice after winning a giveaway on a blog. I was really delighted as it was by an overseas writer I'd met, become friendly with and enjoyed a couple of her previous books. This one was quite a big disappointment and I felt I could not even give it 2stars. I've also discovered that readers's tastes vary. What I like other readers don't! And I certainly don't expect every reader of my own books to think they are wonderful! This book had nothing in it like swearing etc not suitable for a Christian novel. However, it just had other problems which jarred me too much. It received reasonable reviews by other readers. Was I wrong not to post a review at all? Mary Hawkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603850711168486457noreply@blogger.com